Daniel: You were talking about the story and the importance of the story
Rosa: Yes, so I guess it’s like there’s a sense the the Universe could just change things completely but there’s an element of human nature requiring things to go at human pace and for there to be a story that makes sense to humans in order for the consciousness to raise in a sustainable way.
But also because it’s kind of just the point. The story is kind of the point. It’s not like we’re going anywhere and we’ll get there and the Universe will be like ‘Ah great, that’s done now’.
It’s almost like enjoying the process of whatever’s happening.
Daniel: There’s a lot of faith in that.
Rosa: Yeh, I found a lot of faith.
Daniel: How does that faith help you relate to things? Big issues or whatever?
Rosa: Well I think there’s a sense of not thinking about the big issues, trusting that that will be taken care of, if each moment you just show up with courage and compassion and you just do your best. Do the best you can at the time until you can do better.
Then the rest will take care of itself. You don’t need to overthink it.
Daniel: Nice. And there’s a sort of a sense of a humour in that, almost. A playfulness.
Rosa: Yes. There’s like a concept for this way of living that became very clear to me that took quite a lot of unpicking and various different versions, that were more and less crazy [laughing].
Daniel: And yet, profound in their way.
Rosa: Yeh. It settled on something quite good I think.
And that is that our species, human beings, are caught in this continuous addictive cycle of ups and downs, chasing a high and then feeling a low and then chasing a high. And that is just part of human nature.
And there was a sense of a shift of consciousness into something that was founded on just compassionate presence. So every moment you’re just kind of bringing compassionate presence to the moment.
Which was where it started with me, but then what ended up happening was almost like an endless expansion of that compassion. It’s like the compassion had no limit and I just completely lost any sense of myself and was just like expanding into compassion for the rainforests being chopped down and children in Mexico who were kept in prison cells and all this awful stuff. And even just walking down the street I’d be experiencing everyone’s suffering with them in just this completely unsustainable way.
So there was a need to bring it in and stick a boundary on where does the compassion stop. And it was almost like if you can create a kind of windmill – like a seasonal windmill – that’s moving around the seasons. So the seasons being:
Spring representing birth, new ideas, excitement, growth
Summer, which would be connection and enjoyment and relaxing
Autumn, which would represent death
And then Winter, which would be like rebirth, visioning, getting ready to come out again
Rosa: It was like moving into that circular way of being, rather than a moving towards something and then reaching for something.
Rosa: It was just experiencing the seasons.
Daniel: One is much more of a circle and one is much more of a sort of, tortured yo-yo
Rosa: Yeh [laughing] a tortured yo-yo that thinks it’s going somewhere but isn’t actually going anywhere because it’s all just a process.
I kind of realised that the movement between the seasons could be held by certain values or ways of looking at life.
So moving from Winter to Spring, was very much that kind of playful creativity. There’s a sense of like gamification as well, so there is a bit of competitiveness that you get in nature of survival of the fittest, but in a fun, creative way rather than an aggressive competitiveness.
And then moving from Spring into Summer, which is the more kind of just enjoying what’s there, there’s a sense of Wellness being really important. I think a lot of that is about protecting balance. The visual that I have with that is in the Lion King movie where the lion’s role is to kind of oversee and to make sure the animals are all in balance and the hyenas don’t come and eat them all. It’s more a protective role of wellness […]
And then moving from Summer to Autumn, so from enjoying what’s there into the death phase, and by death it’s like cutting away the parts of you that don’t need to be there any more. So shadows or excesses or whatever. It’s kind of like tidying up, cutting things away, there’s a sense of that being driven by adaptability. I guess seeing the need for a change and thinking how could I change that about myself? Having that open-minded, problem-solving attitude rather than right or wrong, or needs to be better or worse, or striving for something. It’s more like ‘how can we tweak this?’
Daniel: Possibility, rather than lack. Opportunity, rather than challenge.
Rosa: Yeh, perfect.
And then from Autumn into Winter, so from that death and cutting back into rebirth and visioning – but a more looking-in visioning, rather than like the outward excitement of Spring – was storytelling. So that’s about having a story that carries you through the death and out the other side. It’s not just like once you’ve realised there’s a problem and you’ve cut away the bad stuff, you’re not just like, ‘well that was shit, it all ended on a bad note.’
It’s like having some momentum behind it that is a story that says, ‘and then we…..’
It’s like the next chapter, and then the next chapter…
Daniel: Like a page turning.
Rosa: Yeh, exactly.
So it was a sense of that being a very different state of consciousness – that we’re all just moving through the seasons. Rather than weighing up whether we’re doing well or badly.
Daniel: But you do have a sense in some ways of a developmental purpose, or like there is a lesson to be learned or a consciousness to be raised.
Daniel: There is in some ways a trajectory hopefully within that.
Rosa: Yeh, if we existed in that way, that would raise the consciousness.
Daniel: So just understanding that circular process? Rather than more craving, or lack, or a less gratitude-filled process. That in itself is raising the consciousness?
Rosa: Yeh, and then out of that we would automatically create new things and new ways of working and new ways of looking after each other and the Earth because rather than being in a state of being like ‘how can we grow the economy? how can we get more?’
We would be like, ‘how can we look after ourselves better?’
Rosa: That would be like the driving force.
Daniel: It’s clearly a much better question, a much better goal. Desperately needed.
Rosa: Yeh. So the questions would be
What would be fun? In terms of play and gamification. Like how can we play the game and challenge ourselves? [Spring]
How can we look after ourselves better? In wellness. [Summer]
Adaptability would be like what could we do better? What’s the opportunity? [Autumn]
And then storytelling is like what’s the story that needs to be told? [Winter] So it would also fight a lot of the oppression and stuff that we have in our society; it’s like film-makers who go out and make films about interesting people who’ve come from these different sections of society that are oppressed and don’t have their voices heard, it would be more inherently like ‘these are the people’s voices we want to hear because they’re the interesting ones.’
Rather than what it is at the moment, which is kind of like fear-based. People who are similar group together because everyone is afraid. People like to hire people that are the same as them and hang out with people that are the same of them.
Daniel: Yeh, it’s true. A lot of fear based on greed and fear of the other. And fear of the unknown. And fear of difference or adversity.
Rosa: Yep. But because this is all built on the compassion it would be a different approach.
Daniel: Nice. Did you find writing about this stuff and putting it down and drawing the pictures, I’m looking at your nice little diagram of a lion or a tiger. Did you find that helpful?
Rosa: I found that this was like being channeled through me. This was what it felt like the purpose of the whole thing was.
Daniel: Was for the message to come out?
Daniel: That your whole journey and strange set of experiences you went through was just so that this information could come through somehow?
Rosa: It was so the information could come through and also so that I could butt up against the limits of my consciousness and smash through it so that I could see things in this way.